The Creative Hub, The Storey Meeting House Lane Lancaster, LA1 1TH

An Interview with Morgan Bailey

21st January 2025 by Lauren Randall

Morgan Bailey, co-creator and performer of All Blood Runs Red, talks about how an encounter in Paris with Pete Brooks and Andrew Quick (Co-Artistic Directors of imitating the dog) led to the development of the brand new theatre production about the extraordinary true life of Eugene Bullard – and how the telling of one true story leads to other stories becoming known.

Morgan was speaking to imitating the dog’s Creative Engagement Manager, Ben Mellor.

All Blood Runs Red R&D photo by Ed Waring

Ben: Why are we telling this story, and why at this moment in time?

Morgan: It all stemmed from a conversation that myself, Pete and Andrew had in Paris. It was just the perfect storm. I was working in Paris at the time. They were working in Paris at the time. So the opportunity presented itself for me to meet up with them and have a conversation. And that was the catalyst for this story. It was about my experiences working on a French film, my thoughts and feelings around how I am perceived and how I perceive other people perceiving me also.

It very much married with Eugene Bullard’s story, not only because he ended up going to France, but because he was taking a leap into the unknown, the steps that he made were groundbreaking. Historically speaking he was the first to do so many things as someone of African heritage, his accomplishments are noteworthy. That’s why his story is worth being told; it has merit, because it’s a powerful thing that he did with his life, and in a very rudimentary way of looking at things you can see the parallels with my life and with other people’s lives like this. 

Let’s imagine Eugene’s accomplishments as the epitome of fortitude and fighting against the tide and getting to where your mind’s eye sees you. Regardless of whatever opposition or oppression that may throw obstacles at you, you still achieve them. And that’s something that I identify with to varying degrees, especially because I’m a black man, I can identify with that on a myriad of levels, but on a human level, we can all identify with that, because we all go through peaks and troughs and we all encounter our own set of challenges and obstacles that we have to overcome. That’s why it’s relevant now.

Ben: How did you find your way into the story of Eugene Bullard, what was the process of discovery for you?

Morgan: Andrew had done a lot of research, and he lent me a book. What I gathered is that [Bullard] had this seed planted in the back of his mind by his father. He had no idea what was waiting for him. He had an idea of what France could be for him, and that’s what pulled him along through everything. I mean at such a young age, he was a near polymath in how much he could mould himself into what was required from him at any given instance in his life. He just seemed to excel and find a way to progress, even with languages. And it’s not like he had any formal education, either. 

So that’s powerful in itself, and I recognize that hunger, because it is a hunger. Hunger can drive you to do a lot. You’re starving out in the wilderness. You find a way to feed yourself, because you have to. And he found a way, and I’m trying to find a way as well. 

Ben: Did you have a seed planted in you at an early age that led you towards what you’re doing? 

Morgan: I suppose so, because the reason I started acting, I wanted to be a storyteller –You know in primary school, you do nativity plays? There was this one time at Easter where I was chosen to be Jesus, and because I was Jesus, I was singled out by the director, and I was taken out of class. We had our own classroom, and she’d go through rehearsals with me, train me. And I just found the process fascinating, taken out of lessons, to do this thing. I was championed, it was a real rush, and I just stuck with it from then. I was like, ‘this is something I’d really like to explore’. At what, ten years old or something? Before I knew anything about the industry, I knew that this was something that I enjoyed. And even at home, stories were a big part of my childhood. My mum would read me stories. I loved being read to. I loved films. My dad loved films, TV shows, comics, all these things. 

All Blood Runs Red R&D photo by Ed Waring

Ben: What are you hoping audiences will experience or take away from this show?

Morgan: I’ve had numerous conversations with friends about this piece, and they are centred around what I mentioned prior – the perception of self, how you perceive people to perceive you. Because I’ve had the conversation of this chip on your shoulder, and this isn’t a blanket statement, I know that people have different experiences. Blackness isn’t monolithic. There are nuances. But I’m sure in some way, somehow, someone can identify with each and every aspect of my life, to a degree, because I’m human. They are human. They are able to experience what I am able to experience and vice versa.

I’ll give an example: I can walk into a room, a predominantly white space, and I found speaking to my peers that they do share this, this dissonance, this chip on the shoulder, this debilitating voice in the back of the head. They walk into a space and they feel uncomfortable because they feel as though they’re being judged, labelled, stereotyped. And in that space they could be right to, there could be someone that’s just casting judgment at them. But also, there could exist a realm of possibility where no one has even batted an eyelid. ‘Okay, cool. That guy’s wearing a nice jacket’, and then they crack on with the conversation. 

If for argument’s sake, someone did possess some prejudice, and it was very much apparent, it manifested in a form of discrimination or something, or a microaggression. Cool, that’s the trauma there, you know what I mean? There’s the issue there. It’s tangible. You can feel it, it’s outside of you and so it’s easier to diffuse that and separate how you are with how they are. You don’t have to interact with them. They don’t have to interact with you. It’s fine. 

The real issue is when you have no idea what anyone else is thinking, but you’re thinking about how they perceive you because of how you perceive yourself, how you perceive the next person that looks like you. So you see yourself as this undesirable entity, and you believe that’s what people see you as. You have no evidence of this, and you walk into that space and you look at them, and you push that chip that’s on your shoulder onto them, and that’s something that stays with you, because that’s coming from you. It’s not coming from them, because you don’t know what they’re thinking. And that is exhausting. 

And having spoken to friends who are black males, it’s something that they possess. They look at a black man and they even feel it themselves. It’s internalised, it’s like you’re public enemy number one, because I’m public enemy number one. I have a mark on my back, you have a mark on your back. Why? There’s no grounds for it, really. Every experience is new until you’re given that evidence as to like, ‘okay, I’m in a somewhat uncomfortable, hostile environment right now’. You need to approach it with a clear mind, an open heart. But I’m telling you that that weight is carried by a lot of men, and women as well, but I can only speak firmly from my perspective. 

So that’s what I want to discuss in this play. I want people to recognise that, because I don’t want it to persist, I want it to be something that can be talked about. Because when you talk about it, you see this. I want to present symptoms. I want to speak about the underlying causes of such things. How to prevent it, and also how to heal. 

And then with that, there’s the topics of sexualization, exotification and everything else in between –  the violence, the otherness, the inhumanity. We are human, we are able to empathise. Because what I’m able to experience, you’re able to experience. You may not have my lived experience, but you know what it feels like to be shunned. Because you might get shunned by your partner one day, you might get shunned by your child or your friend because you said something that they didn’t like. You experienced that. So you’re able to understand. I’d like audiences to feel that, and hopefully learn from that. Ignorance is bliss. And I’d like to encourage people to do the work, and the work’s very uncomfortable.

All Blood Runs Red R&D photo by Ed Waring

Ben: The show ends with a powerful conversation between you and Eugene Bullard in which he talks about individual autonomy and reclaiming the self from other people’s perceptions. Is that what you’re trying to make the case for in this piece? Is that part of the solution for you? 

Morgan: I asked myself the same question, because I don’t like to write something and be just taking stabs in the dark, I need to understand what I’m saying. I need to have it all mapped out, because that’s what guides me through something. 

So in the French film that I was in, I felt uncomfortable several times for different reasons. It was a very alien experience. There were a lot of tone deaf scenarios that I came across, which made me shift in myself a bit. Because how do I politely, professionally navigate such things? How do I find a voice? Do I even want to be in this industry when I’m having to question, how do I articulate myself? It’s something that I’ve struggled with. 

Because I have no steps to follow. I don’t know anyone from my neck of the woods, I’m talking like deep south central Manchester, who grew up in this heavily Caribbean, West African, also East African, now South Asian, melting pot; Mancunian accent, born and bred, and they’ve lived in my shoes, and they’ve gone on to succeed in what I would like to succeed in. I don’t see that. I’ve had imposter syndrome for so long because of that. 

When I started writing I was one of three black people in the room, and of them, I think I was one of the only ones from Manchester and around my neck of the woods specifically. So, why am I there? I have to hold on to that idea that my ability is worth something to people outside.  I just want to write and invest in myself, but it’s difficult because I don’t know which route to take. I’ve not seen it before. I can’t emulate anything, because the closest thing to me doesn’t exist. I’m not from London, not from Brum, I’m from Manchester, you know? My experiences growing up here, working here, will be completely different to someone working in London, because opportunities are in abundance there. 

When it came to the French film, that was already in the back of my mind. So when I was encountering these situations, it just exacerbated what was already there. I was thinking about how I’m perceived, exotified. Because for a lot of the auditions I was getting offered for the longest time, I knew that I’d either be a thug, some kind of miscreant underclass, or I’d be gay. And it happened, with my first ever job I was shot in the head. My first step on screen, my first ever job. And then subsequent auditions, soaps, feature films and whatnot, it was always something sexual. It was as though those were the only two types of black man that they wanted to put in cinema. Something hyper sexualized, just focusing on sexuality, or it’s violence. And that’s all it is, in my experience.

So it made me doubt a lot about myself, but it also taught me a lot because I pushed through it and I persevered and it improved my craft. It improved my understanding of myself and the world around me and others that exist within it. So the conversation with Eugene that concludes the story, I don’t know what Eugene was saying. I wrote that, it’s coming from my thoughts. It’s the voice that was there to combat my doubts. And my doubts still exist. I’d be lying if I said they didn’t. But so does that voice as well, and it’s gained more ground than it would have otherwise, which is why I agreed to do this. It’s very personal, but it’s valid and it needs to be talked about.

If this play can inspire someone to challenge the doubt in themselves, challenge these ideas of self that are debilitating, whether you cast them on others or you cast them on yourself, I don’t mind my personal experiences, my vulnerabilities, being on display for that conversation to take place. That’s my job. I’m a storyteller. It’s just that this story is quite close to home.

All Blood Runs Red R&D photo by Ed Waring

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